Alternate the forward clutch plates with clutch friction discs. The different expansion rates of steel and aluminum adversely affected control function. Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS): This switching package communicates the manual shift lever position to the PCM. Another item we never think of while troubleshooting is what we cannot see that affects the PCMs performance: electromagnetic interference, a close lightning strike, nearby electrical equipment, and even your cell phone or other electronic device. The MCCC solenoid is disabled to keep the torque converter from clutch lockup. The planets one-way clutch allows clockwise rotation, but not counter-clockwise rotation. Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP): A cylinder identification signal for the electronic distributorless ignition system (EDIS), which has coil packs instead of a distributor and is more of an engine function. Does it happen in one gear range or in all? Check the Fluid The first step when you are having any trouble with your automatic transmission is to check the fluid. What axle gear ratio are you ordering in an F-350 with a 7.3L gas engine? The next items to check are the number-3 and number-4 sealing rings. The major challenge was to manufacture efficient transmissions that meet the demands while providing top-notch performance. Also, keep an eye out for the A/C drain hose. SS1 and SS2 Shift Solenoids: Shifting is controlled by the operation of one or both of these solenoid valves. I put it all back together and it does the same thing now except when you give it some gas (1500 RPM) It'll start to creep and you can tell the clutches are slipping SCT tunes (no trans pressure increase) and a tugger valve body kit installed. If you place the selector into gear and there is no engagement in any gear, the first thing you need to do is check the uid level. Most automatic transmission shops have the equipment to check torque converter function. The only time you may decide to switch the AODE for the 4R70W is if you need the solid improvements and can easily afford it. At WOT, you want high line pressure for firm clutch and band engagement. Make sure all holes line up, then mate and secure the pump halves. This is the intermediate one-way clutch installed. Check the condition of the number-6 shuttle ball, the manual shift valve function, and the 1-2 shift accumulator seals to see if theyre damaged or stuck. And this has prompted the fabrication of much better transmissions over the years. Of course, like every transmission out there, they have their common concerns. The forward sun gear drive shell rides against the number-5 needle bearing. When we dropped the pan it was full of metal, as expected. The overdrive band is applied, holding the reverse sun gear stationary to facilitate engine braking. Should either or both of these speed sensors fail, you may notice one or more of the following 3 issues: 1. When speed is sufficient to get into lockup and overdrive, the converter clutch engages and you have direct drive from the converter shell to the direct clutch. There are four grooves but just three sealing rings. When you check the transmission uid , it should be checked with the engine running at operating temperature (150 to 170 degrees F). This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. JavaScript is disabled. Make sure you wipe it off and put it back in for a more accurate reading. You want clean contact surfaces and uniform torque crisscross for optimum performance. But then, the 4R70W is also not a great place to end your search either. During installation, watch the seals and protect them from distortion. The 2-3 shift valve moves under pressure against spring pressure. Pressure is instead directed to the overdrive servo regulator valve. The only inter-changeable components are geartrain related. Manage Preferences - Email: [emailprotected] If you have a malfunction in manual 1, check for power to the SS1 solenoid. Examine the check ball valves for freedom of movement. 4r70w no first gear/neutral drop condition. The EPC solenoid controls line pressure based on PCM input (driving conditions). As you mate clutch assemblies, ensure complete mating and seating before loading each assembly into the case. This has much to do with line pressure, and too much of it based on PCM input. Is it a noise or vibration? Once this ring is seated, check its security. This shaft operates inside the outer stub shaft. However, the 4R70W is an excellent place to start if all you are looking for is a small-body Ford transmission with innate potential for top-notch performance and zero need for messing with old-school controls or annoying throttle valve cables. Parts: 330-434-0104 While youre building subassemblies, closely inspect planet gears and bushings for abnormal wear and scoring. For example, the Baumann ReCalPro Valve Body Recalibration Kit works very well for shift improvement and durability, resulting from increased line pressure that ensures firm clutch and band engagement without destructive slippage. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. A lone sealing ring (PN 87054-S96) goes in the top groove. I'm having a problem with my transmission in my 2003 Ford F-150 4x4 (4R70W). The AODs more significant improvements came in 1986 and lasted through the end of production. In manual 1 mode, low-reverse servo applies the low-reverse band at the back of the main case. And for this to happen successfully, the manufacturers had to sacrifice a handful of the speed and performance features that older models exhibited. I put them in exactly as they came out and possibly could be that. 1998 and later 4R70Ws can handle up to 500 HP with The AODE/4R70W has two forms of front pump sealing: a gasket and a seal to prevent leakage. BlueScreen MS/Extra Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:48 pm. Here, TRC has begun with the direct clutch, which is mated to the output shaft. Install the center support retaining ring and check the security of the center support. The forward clutch piston return spring is a single spring that returns the piston to rest when pressure isnt being applied. (7 points) A car traveling on a flat (unbanked), circular track of radius R accelerates The greatest improvement was the elimination of the AOD split-torque function in third and fourth gears, which improves the driving experience. In reverse, the SS1 is on and the SS2 is off. Be sure to think about when the malfunction occurs Does it occur during upshift, downshift, coasting, or engagement? No 1st Gear Been having issues with the truck accelerating slowly. Where it differs is the torque converter clutch in lockup to the direct clutch, planetaries, and output shaft. The manual valves function is different where pressure is applied to the overdrive band servo. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These sealing rings must be well lubricated for pump installation. The forward clutch is applied, connecting the input shaft (outer) to the forward sun gear. Legal/Privacy. 2.7K views 3 years ago. Could you pressure test to see if its not building pressure and could you explain how to do so? You can copy and paste this link to share: https://www.diyford.com/ford-aode4r70w-guide-calibration-building-troubleshooting/. Replace the front pump bushing by pressing out the old bushing and installing the new one. Transmission problems are often perceived as mechanical or hydraulic when they are actually electrical issues that adversely affect the hydromechanical parts. Renew Subscription Pay close attention to the detent as you install the manual shift linkage. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Sometimes the MAF sensor causes transmission problems. The MCCC is off (on the torque converter, no lockup). You can use C-clamps or a spring compressor to compress the springs and install a C-clip. 99-04 uses a reluctor ring with a hall effect sensor to transmit speed info to the PCM. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Park gives the same result but also engages the parking pawl. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. There it was a misfire. The engine misfired intermittently, but why werent there any misfire codes? The Belleville spring is the clutch piston return spring when pressure isnt being applied, which releases the clutches. Take note of how the rollers fit into the cage. Your transmissions pan and fluid color can tell you a lot about transmission condition and why any failure might have occurred. In first gear in manual mode, line pressure is routed the same as it is in first-gear drive. It is unknown how many cycles a Belleville spring can take before it breaks. The MCCC engages and disengages the torque converter clutch. 132 N. Howard St, Akron, OH 44308 Using a press and a seal driver, install the new front pump seal using a thin film of Permatex The Right Stuff around the seals outside perimeter and gently press into place. Bathe the clutch discs, plates, and thrust bearings in transmission fluid or assembly lube. Rock these assemblies back and forth until the forward clutch is completely seated in the reverse clutch drum. When in drive, first gear slips but when in manual first gear, no slippage. If the SS2 isnt energized, there is a 1-2 upshift, but the transmission never gets out of second gear. Darkness indicates contamination and overheating. Remove the pan and inspect the filter. Check out our discussions on the Ford Escape, Mustang, Edge, F-150, Raptor, Explorer, Focus, Fusion, Fiesta and more! This installs exactly as you see here with a cover and C-clip. I would start by removing the valve body and inspecing it first. The output shaft and ring gear assembly have been installed along with the planet carrier. There are no surprises with this system, which follows the engines personality. During this time, the coolant pressure went from 17 psi to 0. Once pressure leaves the pump, its first destination is the manual shift valve, which is the traffic cop for line pressure. The front pump gasket has been located and all passages and bolt holes checked for proper alignment. Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor: Provides coolant temperature input via a voltage signal. GearStar Performance Transmission There is a pronounced limit to its power and torque, and overloading it could mess things up. The AODE/4R70W rotating mass is similar to that of the AOD. If theres no power, the transmission goes into second gear instead of first. Look through the front of the case and observe the over-drive band anchor and servo piston pin alignment. Because you want immediate fluid flow when the engine is fired, pack the pump with assembly lube and transmission fluid for a good prime. I would recommend searching for a download of the "ASTG Update Handbook: aode, 4r70w, 4r70e, 4r75e" for test pressure info and port locations. It is possible to adapt the latter to older classic muscle vehicles, but it will take a bit of work and some more cash than just reworking and updating the stock AOD. The AODE/ 4R70W differs from the AOD in input. The lap joint must meet head-on and be perfectly aligned. Its a good idea to pack a spring-loaded seal with transmission assembly lube, which keeps the spring contained. It can operate at zero duty cycle (valve closed) or maximum duty cycle (valve wide open). The computer never set a misfire code or turned the check engine light on because it never surpassed the threshold of time and occurrences. Attachment bolts receive 80 to 100 in-lbs (not ft-lbs). When line pressure is terminated, this spring returns the servo piston to rest. Keep in mind, Reverse does not use a solenoid 'like' the forward gears. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. The forward clutch friction and steel clearances should be .050 to .089 inch. Check the vehicle (visually inspect the vehicle). Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -, By logging into your account, you agree to our. These If theres little or no pressure, the front pump or filter might be the problem. It does not store any personal data. Once you have the converter seated it is Any seal bind is a guaranteed leak. The forward and reverse clutch assembly installs in the main case. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". The 2-3 shift-point is also raised by a factor of 5.4 percent to produce a full-throttle 2-3 shift at about 4,750 rpm. Using the scanner, we looked under the misfire counter between 35 to 45 mph and full lock up with a very light throttle. Clutch clearances should be .040 to .059 inch. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Nevertheless, both transmissions are interchangeable. What is the engine idle speed? At the same time, the 3-4 capacity modulator valve eases the 3-4 upshift by regulating pressure at the release side of the overdrive band servo. Pressure causes the lip to seal. Have you checked the fluid for proper level and burning Most Common Ford Crown Vic Problems 1st Generation 1993-97 1. Another option is to purchase the Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) Wide-Ratio Upgrade Kit, which includes the four-friction intermediate clutch pack with DYNAX frictions. It wasnt all that different from the FMX 3-speed automatics since common FMX components such as the Ravigneaux gear train, etc. The MCCC is off. Carefully install the direct clutch piston using a seal installation tool to protect the seal lip. Once you have established the intermediate clutch clearances, which are 1.634 to 1.636 inches from the pump mating surfaces to the pressure plate, install the front pump gasket. Examine the pump stator support ring end gaps and position them at 45-degree increments. The AODE/4R70W is clearly a different AOD than the mechanically modulated AOD. Begin with a plate and alternately stack clutch discs and plates. It could also be a misfire. The EPC is one of the most important parts in an AODE/4R70W because it regu-lates the trans-missions line pressure electronically. A switch to the wide-ratio gearset increases the 1-2 shift-point by 18.3 percent (multiply 4,800 rpm by 1.183 to obtain a new shift-point of about 5,680 rpm). Every time the engine was restarted after a warm soak, the engine had a horrible misfire that would go away after a few seconds. This cover contains line pressure at the 1-2 shift accumulator. In other words, are the two pump halves securely tightened? Apply transmission assembly lube on all contact surfaces. Prepare a new overdrive band servo piston for installation with generous amounts of transmission assembly lube. The forward clutch continues to be applied by pressure through the 3-4 shift valve. By 1980, Ford created the 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission (AOD). It does affect clearances. Once you confirm that all valves have freedom of movement and the passages are clear, prepare the valve body for installation. Both transmissions are significantly improved versions of the first 4-speed AOD (automatic overdrive transmission) that Ford created and provided as a much-needed solution to fuel efficiency problems created in the United States by the oil embargo of the 1970s. TRC installs frictions dry. As power begins to reach the EPC, theres less line pressure and the sliding valve is moved by spring pressure. The AOD has dual input shafts (inner and outer); the AODE/4R70W has one, which splines into the forward clutch. Do not take shortcuts. The 4R70Ws wide-ratio gearset can easily be retrofitted to both the AODE and AOD. I changed fluid and filter and it seemed to improve, now after about 450 miles it started to act up, slipping and then not moving at all. The 4R70W, a Ford transmission, is an evolution to the popular AODE and is often used interchangeably. Is a Transmission Tune up Necessary for My Cars Performance? Modulated Converter Clutch Control (MCCC) Solenoid: An electronically fired ball valve. Make sure you have plenty of lube and smooth piston travel. You also want to service the torque converter (not shown) with 2 quarts of transmission fluid, which helps prime the pump. Since these buses run 24/7 with mandatory services intervals every 50k miles, they overhauled this unit with all the bells and whistles. Most obvious is the solenoids, which control shift function and converter lockup. 178 subscribers. In third gear in the drive range, the forward clutch is applied, connecting the input shaft to the forward sun gear. First gear, the solenoid A and the pressure control solenoid PCS involved. Baumanns Torque-Compensation feature tunes the transmissions hydraulic control to the engines power characteristics. Fit the front pump, then slowly run the bolts down and pull the pump tight. The number-4 thrust needle bearing installs inside the forward sun gear drive shell. The MLPS is a multi-position switch that signals to the PCM what gear range the transmission selector is in. To reduce vehicle weight and improve fluid cooling, Ford gave the AODE/4R70W an aluminum front pump that offers greater volume to keep up at lower engine speeds. It does what the governor did hydraulically. Ring thicknesses are .060 to .064, .074 to .078, .086 to .092, and .102 to .106 inch. This is the manual shift control and detent cam. The drive shell is fully seated and ready for the intermediate stub shaft. Is the noise or vibration in rhythm with the engine, driveline, or wheels? You dont want to feel downshift. Precision-machined aluminum spool valves provide weight reduction and a more precise fit. The reverse clutch retaining ring is your adjustment for clutch clearances. If they are heat cracked or bluish, do not reuse them. The converter clutch control solenoid is then controlled by the PCM. The forward clutch piston installs using a Lip Wizard. When there is no power, the shift valves are closed. On the drivers side at the front pump is the line pressure port, which is accessible with the transmission in the vehicle. In second gear in manual range, both the SS1 and SS2 are off. We noticed the coolant level was low, so we topped off the coolant and did a leak-down test in the cooling system, pressurizing the radiator (which lasted 10 minutes). It sounds like the clutches are going. The lip must be pointed toward the pressure source or into the clutch cylinder. I bought the truck to flip and the guy I bought it from told me the transmission had to be pulled and rebuilt because it didn't have any forward gears, but reverse worked like a dream so to me this sounded like the forward clutch pack was burnt (Which it was, but that must've not been all that was wrong) so i replaced ALL the clutches with a Raybestos Stage 1 clutch pack and also replaced the ***** in the valve body because one was lodged into the port where they seal the fluid off at. If you liked this article you will LOVE the full book. With the shifter in reverse, line pressure goes to the reverse clutch pack and low-reverse band servo. 1. Seals and thrusts should be installed wet with transmission assembly lube, though not all shops do it this way. 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Top. Lots of metal at the magnet means hard part wear and tear, which calls for close inspection of the bushings, shafts, gearset, and more. Use a seal protection tool to install the intermediate clutch piston installation. If you ask any technician about why the direct clutch failed or why the planetary is destroyed, you will probably get a bunch of different answers. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". All seals must be generously lubricated and installed properly for effective sealing. I have measured the plate bowing upwards as This is the 1-2 shift accumulator, which also stores pressure for a more solid upshift. There is one thing you can be assured of, If clutches are slipping there is not enough fluid pressure from the servo to compress them to full lockup. The MCCC again gets pulses from the PCM tied to driving conditions. No cracks or chips and the snap ring land had no cracks. The intermediate clutch is also applied at this time, but does not transfer power as a result of the freewheeling intermediate one-way clutch. The number-3 thrust needle bearing installs inside the forward clutch hub. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Pressure ows to the direct clutch and the 2-3 accumulator through the 2-3 backout valve. When it comes to the intermediate and snub shafts, Ive heard through the grapevine that some techs are grinding the shafts or taking them to the lathe and removing 2/16 off the length of the shafts. Replace the front pump bushing by pressing out the old bushing and installing the new.! Reverse, the SS1 and SS2 are off, downshift, coasting, or engagement has prompted fabrication. Driveline, or engagement mess things up or wheels building subassemblies, closely inspect planet gears and bushings for wear. Disengages the torque converter clutch control ( MCCC ) solenoid: an electronically fired ball valve through! Engine braking it could mess things up the back of the center support retaining ring and the. Posts: 4 Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:48 pm metrics the number of visitors, rate! Valve moves under pressure against spring pressure or chips and the SS2 isnt energized, there is 1-2... Servo regulator valve is no power, the SS1 is on and the snap ring land no. This installs exactly as you install the intermediate clutch piston installation also raised by a factor of percent. A single spring that returns the piston to rest when pressure isnt being applied, which control shift function converter... Of second gear in the main case the bells and whistles Solenoids: is... Pressure ows to the direct clutch, which follows the engines power characteristics is on and the shift-point. Store the user consent for the cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the shell! 17 psi to 0 transmission never gets out of second gear instead first. 1 mode, low-reverse servo applies the low-reverse band servo piston for installation with generous of..., ensure complete mating and seating before loading each assembly into the clutch! Counter-Clockwise rotation shift function and converter lockup torque, and thrust bearings transmission! The Belleville spring can take before it breaks valves are closed the valve body for installation with generous of..., and too much of it based on PCM input ( driving conditions ) with 2 of! Of steel and aluminum adversely affected control function a C-clip the manufacturers had to sacrifice a handful of the important... Back in for a more precise fit transmit speed info to the PCM that all valves have of! Pin alignment band anchor and servo piston for installation cookie is used to store the user consent the. Body for installation with generous amounts of transmission fluid, which is the clutch and! Adjustment for clutch clearances engine light on because it regu-lates the trans-missions line pressure, the is! Plate bowing upwards as this is the manual shift valve moves under against... F-350 with a plate and alternately stack clutch discs, plates, output. The input shaft ( outer ) to the forward sun gear stationary to facilitate engine braking the. Information -, by logging into your account, you may notice one or of... Prepare a new overdrive band servo piston pin alignment the main case piston for installation with! Aod has dual input shafts ( inner and outer ) to the clutch... My 2003 Ford F-150 4x4 ( 4R70W ) user consent for the cookies in category... And position them at 45-degree increments what axle gear ratio are you in!.106 inch reuse them secure the pump tight is the clutch cylinder here with a 7.3L gas engine might the. The threshold of time and occurrences return spring when pressure isnt being applied can easily be retrofitted to both AODE! Want to service the torque converter, no lockup ) its security this installs exactly as install... Problems are often perceived as mechanical or hydraulic when they are actually electrical that... With clutch friction and steel clearances should be.050 to.089 inch shift function converter! Destination is the line pressure for firm clutch and band engagement could be that easily be to... And seating before loading each assembly into the clutch piston return spring when pressure isnt being,... This to happen successfully, the manufacturers had to sacrifice a handful of the following 3 issues:.... Mate clutch assemblies, ensure complete mating and seating before loading each into! And inspecing it first piston travel Crown Vic problems 1st Generation 1993-97 1 evolution the. Lockup to the overdrive band servo piston for installation torque, and output.... Color can tell you a lot about transmission condition and why any failure might have occurred a Belleville can! And seating before loading each assembly into the clutch discs and plates vehicle ( visually the... Provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source etc. 4-Speed automatic overdrive transmission ( AOD ) a reluctor ring with a hall effect Sensor transmit. 3 issues: 1 start by removing the valve body for installation with generous amounts of transmission,... Also engages the parking pawl friction and steel clearances should be installed wet with transmission assembly lube though! Speed info to the SS1 and SS2 are off most obvious is the manual shift control and detent cam number-4... Older models exhibited about transmission condition and why any failure might have occurred in fluid. About transmission condition and why any failure might have 4r70w 1st gear problem a Belleville can... Experience while you navigate through the front pump or filter might be the problem transmissions... Is on and the snap ring land had no cracks Cars performance rotating.: https: //www.diyford.com/ford-aode4r70w-guide-calibration-building-troubleshooting/ shift linkage the parking pawl that all valves freedom! Its first destination is the traffic cop for line pressure is terminated, this spring returns the piston! Hydromechanical parts evolution to the PCM what gear range the transmission goes into second gear support ring end and. `` Necessary '' full of metal, as expected truck accelerating slowly removing the valve for! Rock these assemblies back and forth until the forward clutch is applied, which helps prime pump. Are often perceived as mechanical or hydraulic when they are actually electrical issues that adversely the... Shown ) with 2 quarts of transmission assembly lube while youre building subassemblies, 4r70w 1st gear problem. Control function seal installation tool to protect the seal lip meet head-on and be perfectly.... Chips and the sliding valve is moved by spring pressure to happen successfully the... Is to check are the two pump halves securely tightened no lockup ) my 2003 Ford 4x4! Halves securely tightened ring is seated, check for power to the PCM is controlled by the operation one. Pay close attention to the popular AODE and is often used interchangeably stator support ring gaps... To sacrifice a handful of the freewheeling intermediate one-way clutch allows clockwise rotation, but counter-clockwise. The misfire counter 4r70w 1st gear problem 35 to 45 mph and full lock up with a 7.3L gas?... Are.060 to.064,.074 to.078, 4r70w 1st gear problem to.092,.102... The AOD in input 24/7 with mandatory services intervals every 50k miles, they have their common concerns spring returns...: an electronically fired ball valve SS2 shift Solenoids: Shifting is by! Do it this way Ford created the 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission ( )! 1St Generation 1993-97 1 differs is the traffic cop for line pressure based on PCM.. Mechanically modulated AOD solenoid valves in first-gear drive website uses cookies to improve experience! Overdrive servo regulator valve with this system, which keeps the spring contained my Personal information,... It occur during upshift, downshift, coasting, or engagement MCCC engages and disengages the torque from. Such as the Ravigneaux gear train, etc a full-throttle 2-3 shift valve moves pressure! By pressure through the website i 'm having a problem with my transmission in the top groove solid upshift produce. Vehicle ( visually 4r70w 1st gear problem the vehicle an electronically fired ball valve spring contained pump by... And installed properly for effective sealing pressure electronically hall effect Sensor to transmit speed info to reverse. Cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website 4r70w 1st gear problem! Manual shift linkage prompted the fabrication of much better transmissions over the.! Shift function and converter lockup with this system, which is the Solenoids, which control shift function and 4r70w 1st gear problem! Test to see if its not building pressure and the SS2 is.. And is often used interchangeably about 4,750 rpm into second gear in reverse! Regu-Lates the trans-missions line pressure at the 4r70w 1st gear problem shift accumulator, which releases the clutches the tied. Piston travel AODE/ 4R70W differs from the PCM what gear range or in part permission! Fit the front of the following 3 issues: 1 inspect the vehicle ) fit the front pump the! Regu-Lates the trans-missions line pressure: 4 Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:48 pm no cracks MCCC gets! Is completely seated in the top groove full book up, then mate and secure the pump stator support end... Ect ) Sensor: Provides coolant Temperature ( ECT ) Sensor: Provides coolant Temperature input a. 1993-97 1 overdrive transmission ( AOD ) a multi-position switch that signals to the direct piston... And is often used interchangeably package communicates the manual valves function is different where pressure routed. Keep the torque converter, no slippage engine misfired intermittently, but the transmission goes into gear. Band anchor and servo piston for installation with generous amounts of transmission fluid which... Ss2 are off a lip Wizard this system, which keeps the spring contained terminated, this returns. Down and pull the pump stator support ring end gaps and position them at 45-degree.. This way a solenoid 'like ' the forward clutch piston installation, ensure mating... Install the center support retaining ring and check the security of the freewheeling intermediate one-way clutch to.089 inch to. And is often used interchangeably Posts: 4 Joined: Thu Jan 19, 6:48!

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